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This Arch Linux install survived 6 months (used only for testing builds) before it broke itself via package manager.

I haven't installed any new packages on it in 6 months. This is just a routine upgrade with a simple desktop configuration.

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@cancel The PGP signature validation has gotten really unstable lately. Lots more dev churn, keyrings don't stay updated. Easy to fix, though.

@drwho yes very easy fix. no instructions for how to fix it, so you have to use google and look at forums, then you try something and see this

@drwho not saying you're necessilary wrong -- it's easy, in theory. all they had to do was have it tell you what to do, and not have a wave of junk spew out to avoid some people thinking it might be an error.

@drwho but preferably they wouldn't have this problem in the first place. linux userland is like a constant assault of this kind of broken crap.

@cancel I find it's no more broken than VMS and it's billion environment profiles per account, Active Directory deciding to delete an encrypted folder from the workstation and the DC when syncing the profile, OSX making me reboot a billion times before it realizes that the latest OS patch actually did install correctly, NeXTStep exporting the / partition read/write over NFS constantly...

Everything is broken. All the fucking time. We just pick what broken we can deal with.

@drwho I don't use VMS and this isn't a server. OS X used to be OK for a few years, it's crap now. Things have gotten worse than they were 10 years ago, though Linux has remained crap in the same ways for a long time.

@cancel I get that. That's valid. What I'm trying to say is that everything is crap; everything is broken all the time.

@drwho (Linux has mostly always been this bad. There was a period of time where Windows and Mac worked better, and there were also periods of time with other OSs that also worked better.)

@cancel I think I'm missing something... We seem to be talking about different things. Or at least, I'm folding system bugs in with UI generally sucking, because I'm too used to never having one without the other.

@drwho Maybe. I guess I was just talking about lazy/uncaring design & implementation, where "just google it and look on forums" is the only & required way to do anything, and the whole heap of crap falls apart constantly.

@cancel Okay. And I'm used to that being /the only/ computing experience possible.

@drwho That's obviously not true, because I've been using computers long before Google existed, and so have you

@cancel You're right - Google is a relatively new thing. But, having to go to the library (or two or three) to hunt down a book that explains a problem or a glitch is not a new thing. Or going to a users' group meeting to ask for help with something. Or writing to the manufacturer with a couple of questions (which Commodore was pretty good about).

@drwho I never did those things, but maybe it's because I didn't start using computers until a bit later in the early 90s. When I started using Linux in the late 90s, there was a giant pile of documentation that came with the binder of disks, the installers were self-documented, etc. Stuff broke but not in the pervasive, connected, and continuous way it does today (as frequently -- all of these things happened in all time periods, but the distribution is changed)

@cancel I started a while before that, early 80's.

As for Linux, I started using it a bit before you did, same big-ass binder of disks and suchlike. And, in regard to what you said, I found it not terribly different in the same ways.

@cancel It was. All the way back to typing direct commands to floppy drives in BASIC, how slug-slow GEOS was, and sorting out IRQ conflicts just to get a mouse working.

@drwho I never had IRQ problems because I used Macs until the late 90s :)

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Merveilles

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