Unity (former game engine company) has merged with an actual adware and malware distribution company. That's not an exaggeration. Fake Flash installers, was blacklisted by Microsoft's anti-malware tool, VirusTotal entires, that kind of thing.

Don't build your games on engines you don't have the source code to.

... if you can avoid it. Pico-8, GameMaker (though they're on some crappy subscription thing now), etc. are all OK for making smaller games. If you're going to invest many months or years of your life into some long-running project, maybe consider Unreal or Godot, instead.

Just realized I typoed "entries" for "entires" 🤦

@cancel Fucking hell, I was considering trying to learn Unity cause it felt like the only engine both powerful enough and easy enough to learn to let me maybe actually manage to make something with it...

Although I can't code so that was probably never gonna happen anyway I guess 🤷‍♀️

@hazelnot I think Unity would be a bit rough if you can't code. GameMaker is the go-to for 2D games without writing lots of code. (Though they recently switched to a subscription model... ugh)

@cancel Well I intended to learn to code before I got to that, although I have untreated ADHD and I don't even know if I can do that at all

Game Maker seems a bit too basic, it seems to not even support aspect ratios that aren't 4:3, and the SDK only runs on Windows (and maybe also macOS?) which I don't use either...

@hazelnot I'm not aware of aspect ratio limitations with GameMaker. I've seen portrait games made with it, 16:9, etc. Are you sure you're looking at the right product?

Yeah, it's a Windows-centric thing. Most game stuff is. Especially the non-programming parts. Trying to make a game w/o coding on Linux sounds like a nightmare. (I can't even imagine trying to *use* Linux without some programming skill.)

@cancel lmao why? 😅

There's absolutely no programming involved in *running* Linux, I'm a designer and I only know how to make like some really basic stuff in JavaScript and I use Linux cause it feels like the only OS I can use that doesn't make me feel like a capitalist shill (plus it won't spy on me and it gives you much more freedom than any proprietary stuff)

But yeah basically I use it for political reasons and I'm... not having any trouble with it lol. I do most things from a GUI and when I do use the terminal it's really simple stuff, definitely no programming involved lol

Also idk the only Game Maker games I've ever encountered were Ijji, Undertale and Deltarune, and they're all locked to 4:3

@hazelnot It breaks all the time, for me, and I have to repair it :P And it will break in ways like, "oh the compilation flags for this library are wrong now, and it's producing something with a mismatched ABI that this other thing wants to link against, ..."

@cancel I have no idea what any of that means

I just use it like I used to use Windows and stuff just works lmao

@hazelnot Not saying you're wrong, but the last person who said to me they have no problems with Linux, 2 or 3 months ago, after I questioned them a bit, ended up revealing that they had just reinstalled their OS a couple of weeks prior because the package manager made it unbootable.

@cancel That *kinda* happened to me one time, cause I canceled an update (ctrl-C'd Pacman) while it was updating the kernel so I ended up with just... no kernel at all lol

But I mean that was 100% my fault lmao

@cancel The only thing I was a victim of was my own pressing of ctrl-c lmao

Like if I didn't want stuff like that to happen I'd be using Ubuntu or Fedora or something, not Arch

@cancel @hazelnot that can happen but the great thing about linux is that fixing that isn't a hopeless opaque barrier of meaningless error messages. you can learn how to fix that kind of problem, and then it's not the dead end Windows gives you.

@crashglasshouses @hazelnot The error messages in Linux are no more or less opaque than what you get in Windows.

@cancel @crashglasshouses At least in Linux you get an actual error message rather than "oopsie poopsie something bad happened :("

@hazelnot @crashglasshouses Windows has detailed error messages in the event viewer, and they're even translated into multiple languages.

@cancel @crashglasshouses Not related to this specific toot but I do find it really bizzare that I'm getting the "Linux is hard to use for the average person, just use Windows" from someone with seemingly *a lot more* knowledge about computers than me, while I get cast into the seemingly implied-elitist position while being more or less a slightly-more-advanced-than-most user who can't code and has to look shit up constantly

Guess it's all about personal attitudes

@hazelnot @cancel @crashglasshouses yeah I think the biggest difference between the two is the ecosystem surrounding them and it's not really useful to argue which is better for a hypothetical 'basic user' bc different people have different use cases

@tindall @hazelnot @crashglasshouses oh, I'm a heavy critic of Windows, I'm just careful to keep my criticisms razor sharp and accurate, so that people will take them seriously :)

@hazelnot @cancel Microsoft is just as much of a cult as Apple is, you just won't run into its members as often.

@crashglasshouses I know, I used to be a Microsoft fangirl lmao

It was Metro UI that did that to me... and I still think it was an amazing design language, and I'm sad that they somehow made it worse with every new iteration until they killed it for good

Zune HD best UI ever don't @ me

@hazelnot i've always hated Microsoft, especially since learning that part of their success came from destroying the Homebrew Computer Club over extremely spurious copyright claims.

i finally ditched Windows in 2018, literally just in time for Proton to drop, purely by coincidence, cause Win7 got stuck and broken on an update and that was the last time for me. Win10 was unabashed spyware, and Win11 is just a dystopian nightmare.

@crashglasshouses I didn't like Microsoft as a kid because of... idk really, then got really into it about the time Windows 8 came out and then started disliking it again when I met a friend of mine who started pulling me towards anarchism and free software and stuff when I was in uni 😅

@crashglasshouses I have no idea what the Homebrew Computer Club was though, this is my first time hearing about it

I thought their success just came from government contracts and stealing 86-DOS/QDOS and being anti-competitive shits

@hazelnot same theme, different crime.

Bill Gates really wanted to do anything to prevent people from sharing software and hardware for free, and here we are.

@hazelnot @cancel @crashglasshouses I noticed the dynamic you described in this conversation, it's very curious.

I would venture to guess that both of you have a fair amount of computer experience, but that experience is not overlapping.

If I only use windows, it's likely that I prefer it's pros and cons over Linux for my use case.

Likewise, if I prefer Linux, it's lts because I prefer it's pros and cons in my specific use case.

@Graycot @cancel @crashglasshouses I'm a designer, who also makes videos and wants to (somehow) learn how to make a game. Windows (or maybe macOS, especially for the design and video stuff) would probably fit my specific use case much better than Linux ever could in the economic and political systems we live under. On the other hand, the person I'm talking to seems to be a programmer of some kind, and I generally assume programmers prefer Linux 😅

@hazelnot @cancel @crashglasshouses haha, this keeps getting more interesting! You are both a very rare subtype of a larger group. Most programming people tend to invest their time into learning Linux (or Mac 🤢), while most design / creative people tend to use Mac or Windows. Neither of you fit into the common stereotype of OS preference for your respective profession. Neat!

@cancel @hazelnot lawl, no. there is no way to interpret most Windows error messages if you're not a Microsoft dev. linux system stuff is pretty well documented by now, and quite often is just an out of place file or a file not found.

if you can't boot Windows, you get to reinstall the entire system, which also means reinstalling all software or a large amount of it.

@crashglasshouses @cancel Yeah, back on Windows all I got was "type this one command (the EXACT SAME ONE every time, I think it was sfc /scannow) into cmd.exe and hope it works and if it doesn't, reinstall Windows"

On Linux I might not be smart enough to actually fix the thing by myself, but I know that if I run into something, *someone* will know exactly what needs to be done 😅

@cancel It's all moot anyway, considering I can't even afford the subscription fees and I'm too stupid to even learn the minimum amount required for even that stuff though 🤷‍♀️

@hazelnot @cancel (my games are all in game maker and they are all in 16:9

you can make games in absolutely any resolution or aspect ratio you want)

@fluttergirly @cancel Huh, interesting! I thought they were locked down to the same sort of resolution old RPG Maker games or Undertale are locked at

@hazelnot @cancel nope! game maker is super robust, you can make really anything you want in it, though the easiest type of game to make tends to be platformers or top down adventure games, but its capable of anything

@hazelnot @cancel Undertale has that resolution either out of choice, or because toby fox didn't know how to change it, hehe,,

@fluttergirly @cancel The two games I have *some* design docs for are an RTS and a Metroidvania, so it technically should suit me for at least one of them, although unfortunately it doesn't have very good Linux support (pretty much none at all) and I don't have Windows on anything 😅

@cancel @hazelnot I remembered some news about a gambling company (Playtech) buying them up a few years ago and it looks like that did happen but they have since been sold again to Opera. 🤔
Similar problem as in the OP.

Btw aren't there some web based low-code game dev tools? I'm not a huge fan of games that only run in browsers, so I haven't looked too deep, but I think I've seen tools like that.

Is unreal open source? Or do you talk about all this other engines and only Godot give you their source code?

@Zykino Unreal Engine is "source available" which means you have access to the source code, and you can modify it for your own usage/purposes, but you cannot freely redistribute the source code.

@cancel I tried Unreal recently and the install size was so massive I had to uninstall it. Over 100GB for Unreal 5, and that's with no platforms or add-ons.

@calutron I mean, it's going to be big. But I thought it was like 35gb with just the base stuff? Are you sure you didn't opt for a bunch of extras? (Are you on Linux?)

@cancel Mac. 35 GB is the size of the bundle you download? But when the process is over, it's over 100 GB. I've seen the tips about extra stuff, but the recent installer for the recent version doesn't even have that as an option. It just downloads as an un-editable chunk.

@calutron It's probably downloading both the Intel and ARM versions, *and* the debug info for both. (The Mac and Linux debug info formats are somewhat space inefficient when compared to Windows .pdb debug info files.)

@cancel Ah interesting. Maybe there's a way to then remove that extra stuff. Hmm.

@calutron You probably need to uncheck debug symbols, uncheck the platforms you don't need, etc., then run the cleanup thing (does that exist?) so it prunes out the stuff it doesn't need.

@calutron Debug symbols are usually the largest part of the engine binaries. They're usually 20x-500x the size of the app code itself.

@cancel The 5.0.1 install has this "options" dropdown where you can uncheck things but 5.0.2 does not

@calutron I don't know, I haven't used it in a few years.

@cancel Ah ok it's a bummer because I don't code really and Blueprints looks great

@cancel Mmm, the sweet smell of surveillance capitalism 😋

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