When we met, @nomand and I discussed the character of Ultimate Truth. I explained that all I had found was a suite of conflicting machines (initially built by evolution, then extended by academia). Nomand described a kind of lurking threat, a great thing that will inevitably eventually destroy us if we cannot rise to apprehend it. I am convinced. It will kill us no matter what, but the more we can know about it the longer we will live.

@nomand (It's also just pragmatic, it is very easy for a human to find fascination in lurking threats, so if we imagine nature this way, we will no longer be able to retreat from any uncomfortable metaphysical truths! :D)

@nomand The other threatening metaphysical principles? I think I have most of them! There's the doomsday argument (our youth is unlikely life's future contains more life). There's bostrom's black ball (discovering technology that inevitably kills us). There's the orthogonality thesis (kindness and competence don't always come together), Omohundro's instrumental drives (living things tend to mutate into conquerors). We shouldn't forget entropy! (energy is finite, everything breaks)

@nomand I wonder what would happen if @rek drew characters of all of these

@rek @nomand If you do, feel free to ask for more characterisation, but also @neauoire probably knows all of these well enough (@neauoire , omohundro drives thing is just referring to how an agent will always pursue money and compute and safety, almost regardless of what its core values are. It proposes that they'll mutate until those things are *all* they pursue, because anything that fails to will be outcompeted by the ones that do.)

@rek @nomand @neauoire (That part's probably an evil Landian myth in the domain of AGI alignment, but in the domain of evolution, it do be like that.)

@faun @nomand it sounds like you’re describing the Great Filter

@stephen @nomand I have a solution to that there youth paradox, and it's so crazy that not even I am willing to describe it in full right now. Bostrom, if he had thought of it, definitely wouldn't be eager to write about it, it's very far outside of his brand

@faun maybe we can take it to ? Where do we discuss philosophy in slack?

@stephen Yeah I'd get into it there, that's what that channel's for.

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