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It's nice to know that the typical electric car battery is like 90% recyclable. This percentage will increase over time, as battery recycling industry is still young and operating at relatively low scales.

If population stabilizes, there will come a point where not much mining will need to be done any more. (very doubtful of the people who think it's going to stabilize right now though. It doesn't make much sense, and I just noticed a network somewhere around Karin Kuhlemann that dissents.)

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@faun I was looking at the green new deal reqs yesterday, and the US would have to more than double their lithium extraction to make the deadline.

@neauoire @faun extraction is happening globally with every country maintaining reserves to keep price stable. There are also multiple mines opening in the US with multiple extraction methods from brine to dirt.

If people were worried about supplies you'd see lithium futures exploding because every major car maker in the US has committed to 100% EV's by 2030 (exception chrystler but they will or die)

@neauoire @faun The bigger question is related to cobalt but Tesla has already committed their future designs to no cobalt, so has Panasonic and LG (suppliers for most of the car companies).

@neauoire @faun Also a very under-appreciated piece of storage in general is that more than half of our current power generation is lost to waste heat and curtailment power generated by never used, ie it doesn't make electricity.

Meaning approx every watt of storage added to the grid reduces generation needed by half. And the closer we build storage to the source/sink the more efficient it becomes.

@neauoire @faun SOURCE: I consulted on a virtual power plant product for a few months where would combine many battery like sinks and either draw from the grid or release on demand/schedule etc.

EX: Electric Water heaters are a thermal battery, instead of wasting electricity when power is curtailing we turn the water heater on.

more: physical batteries, pumped storage and water towers, factories, solar pv.

@peregrine @neauoire no cobalt? I thought the designs in the pipeline (that tabless stuff) still used a bit?
They say they're using suppliers with more auditing or something.

Cobalt is one of the components of the battery that's entirely recyclable btw.

@faun @neauoire I think the issue we're referring to is the near term damage getting all that metal out of the ground. Cobalt is one of the bloodiest resources being extracted.

@faun judging by the state of recycling in general, I'm not sure "recyclability" is a useful metric to inspire hope - unless there's significant financial pressure to actually do that recycling, companies sadly will not do it :/

@T045T @faun i read steel recovery rate for automobiles is around 90% - while I know nothing about the recyclability of lithium products, I suspect it's a whole lot more complicated than steel products. I don't think generic incentive or financial pressure are the primary issues. you're referring to how many materials are difficult to recycle right? steel recovery for consumer products for example is much lower, i read around 50%, due to factors like they're complicated or get discarded.

@T045T @faun energy-storage.news/news/batte
"Only around 16% of industrial batteries deployed in Sweden are collected for recycling at end of life, far short of the country’s target of 95%." damn I mean that's...not good lol. maybe you have a major point

@vulkanized @faun huh, that's interesting - I would have assumed industrial batteries would be both easier to recycle (per gram of usable material) and easier to get hold of in the first place.
But that article sounds like there is a robust economy in place for actually recycling batteries. I was drawing a parallel to plastics, where recycling is technically possible, but not economically feasible. At least that's not happening with batteries :)

@T045T @vulkanized I do expect it to be profitable, lithium is pretty expensive. They have to do some processing to get it ready to manufacture with again, but it didn't seem as complicated as mining.

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