There's been a lot of anti JS sentiment around the "make a forum" motion. My current position is that pages should always be readable without javascript, but that forgoing JS for editing interactions is too limiting.

I may be missing some information about what's possible without JS, for instance, is there a way of doing likes? You click a thing, it sends a request to the server, but the page doesn't change?

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@faun it's certainly possible to send requests. i've got an idea to make this work;

for a "like" button `button:active { background: url("/api/like?target=postid&token=1234) }` would send a request, with a special token given for that action specifically generated by the server for this one page that's good for a few minutes or so. once you've clicked it, it would say "liked" instead of "like" so you know you can't click it again. once the page is refreshed it would say "unlike", then "unliked"

@faun it certainly would be a little jank (so is most of css lol) and you might think it increases the size of the website a considerable bit -- but it's probably the same size as a mediocre javascript implementation and you're just noticing it because it's apart of the "front end code" (html + css) instead of being split into a js file

@faun my dream is it could be a lot less jank, however, if the use of css to replace javascript like this was embraced by the w3c and the web at large

@zvava @faun That would break on lots of browsers, Mothra for one.

@csepp @zvava @faun surely it's entirely possible to do it without JS?

@vidak @csepp @faun well you could make it compatible with any browser by using regular links, without js OR css, except then it would refresh the page which is the problem we're trying to avoid :p

@zvava @vidak @csepp I guess I have no excuse from making it do that in the nojs version. It might as well.

@zvava @csepp @faun maybe this makes me a little like the grinch, given the season, but i would not include ‘likes’ either—they’re a passive action that comprises the foundation of social media storms. like richard seymour says in the twittering machine

@vidak @csepp @zvava I think the little "I appreciate this" signals are totally crucial for interpersonal connection. People go insane without them. They think they're appreciated when they aren't, or that they're unappreciated when they are.

I'm not addicted to social media, I'm addicted to social interaction, which is no more surmountable than my addiction to drinking water.

I just wish the interaction took a different form.

@faun @vidak @zvava Maybe if it grouped notifications like Brutaldon (which should honestly be standard in literally every client) it would be better.

@faun @csepp @zvava it's obviously completely up to you, because it's your project! (:

but if it were up to me, i would perhaps relegate likes to a plugin status, and have the feature be opt-in. i just wanted to pop my head in and have my perspective represented 🤣😂

it's my understanding that metrics for repeats and posts are used elsewhere on the internet to establish social hierarachies of celebrity.

that's all i wanted to say! (:

@vidak @faun @zvava What I would do is:
- no publicly visible stats (by default at least)
- no sorting by faves in timelines, or make the sorting somewhat fuzzy

@csepp @vidak @zvava I'd agree with not showing follower count on profiles, but hmm I'm not sure whether burying follower count will make people stop trying to game it. It does ultimately reflect how many people are listening to them. Another pretty fundamental human need. But my design doesn't really have "following", it's more content-category-oriented.

I think i'd provide different sorting options and let different Ways decide which one they use.

@csepp @vidak @zvava Some esoteric content sorting rules I'd be interested in trying:
- Ratio of people who "like"d this divided by number who "meh"'d it.

- Prediction market forecasts about the above ratio.

- aggregate preference judgement graph topness/rank aggregation.

- "people who like what you like also liked" thingy? Could be fun to have just to see if it actually works at all.

@csepp @vidak @zvava instead of "following" there is "subscribers to various scattered collections that you have edit/add rights on" x] very hard to reduce to a metric

@csepp @zvava mm it seems like it's going to be the browser's choice as to when it loads the image.

If I wrote a browser I'd definitely break it, because having the image ready before we need it instead of having a time lag after clicking seems more correct.

@faun @csepp i didn't even consider this, since chrome and firefox don't preload, and i guess that's the poison of the modern web :(

@csepp @faun it shouldn't break on any browser that allows css url image backgrounds, like i think netsurf even should be supported by this approach(?)

@faun without JS, everything is server side. so it would reload the whole page, probably.

@faun forms and frames xD. Honestly though, just enough js to get these interactions working is fine. That’s literally what it was invented for right? 😅

@colinkiama @faun It's possible to do it so that it works without JS but works better with JS. Take a look at how Brutaldon implements interactions if you're interested:
Eg.: the favorite button does a full reload in Netsurf but simply changes state in Firefox with JS enabled.

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