@freedcreative Uninstalled it and went with Chromium months ago.

@bamfic I have Irridium, but the chromium monoculture Google is pushing for so they can have absolute dominance gives me IE6 flashbacks, only it'll be worse.

@freedcreative Agreed, Chrome is disgusting from a political standpoint. But it works, whereas Firefox does not. Then again, Firefox is no angel either.

I honestly don't know what to do.

@bamfic Same here. It's not a pretty picture at all right now with no really good answers.

@bamfic @freedcreative May I ask what doesn't work?

I've noticed some apps with video and screen sharing don't work. Changing user agent fixed it. Actually an issue on the developer side instead of Firefox.

Maybe you had other issues I'm not aware off.

@daniels @freedcreative slow,buggy,crashy mostly..also 100% cpu lockups doing nothing

@bamfic @daniels @freedcreative I prefer buggy Firefox to resist the catastrophic dominance of Chrome. Chrome just works but that is a typical feature that it shares with all other creepy pieces of malware. It is the sugar that keeps us all swallowing their toxic dish.

@hansup @bamfic @daniels Same for me. As someone who was a web designer when IE6 was at its peak use, I hate the thought of backsliding into a state like that. Not to mention the shady anti-ad-block moves it's creeping towards.

If I have to dump Firefox I'd rather go with something based on WebKitGTK if I can.

@freedcreative @bamfic @daniels oh, those IE6 days! But I think Chrome is much worse than IE, because technically, Chrome is OK. IE was not compared to FF.
It’s an ethical battle now. I will always try to choose for the smaller player by principle. All large entities with too much power always get evil, always! We desperately need competition to keep the web healthy.
A few bugs are never enough of a reason to play along with the evil dominator.

@hansup Yeah that's the scary bit. They're not ham-fisting their way through it all, pissing off developers as they go, the way MS did with IE. Everybody hated it from users to devs.

It's much worse with chromium because functionally it's just fine for devs and users so there's a lot less push back.

@freedcreative @hansup @bamfic @daniels how can they be anti ad block! They have an ad block built in!

It conveniently doesn't block ads served by Google though, because those are "high quality". 🙄

@jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative wow, what a grim overview! The reactions of all the Google people In that article are so typically disgusting!
Google is a 100% destructive force. Anyone trying to prove the opposite is stupidly blind or payed by Google.
I refuse to use anything related to Google. Anything online that relies on Chrome only, I consider as malware. I will not even attempt to have a look.

@hansup That said, Mozilla as well as other FLOSS communities and projects still have Google money in them, participate in Google Summer of Code, ... . 😐 @jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative

@z428 @hansup @jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative there are alternatives like Netsurf, or even Gemini.
trying to save the modern web is futile. Google won't let go, no matter how loud you are.

@z428 @hansup @jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative Actually, forget Netsurf.
Look at what @alcinnz doing instead.

(because #Netsurf _is_ trying to keep up with modern standards like JS, even though it's pointless and directly opposed to what a lot of its users want.)

@z428 @jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative Yes, Mozilla took G-money and yes developers still are the first easy target of G. They were the first promo boys for G and still can’t resist showing of their project again and again in bloody Chrome. Those summers of code are such a sad thing.
Maybe I should return to Apple and stay on Safari...

@hansup @z428 @jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative Or you can use another browser (like GNOME Web, Midori, Ephemeral, or my own Odysseus) built on their technology.

But if you want a web browser which doesn't break many/most webpages you are going to have to rely on Google, Apple, or Mozilla (who appears to be relying on Google).

@hansup Well... I think, though, it's a bit more difficult. Could the FLOSS community, if we really want it, build a browser engine that is "self-sustainable" and works without depending upon Google money / support? Instead, we have, like, hundreds of Linux distributions, a new activitypub server implementation every other week (because the "mainstream" ones are implemented in that language one doesn't like), multiple "big" Linux desktops, ...

@jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative

@hansup ... and all of that mostly done by developers in their spare time for the fun of it. This way, things won't change. But I don't see us getting more "focussed", getting back to collaboration rather than competition again anytime soon... 😟

@jamesmullarkey @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative

@jamesmullarkey Yes. That pretty much nails it. Maybe I'm sounding a bit too gloomy here, but it seems this has somewhat worsened the last couple of years, and sometimes I wonder whether people "abusing"(?) github repositories as their CV to make themselves attractive to potential future employers is part of the problem - is it more attractive to hire someone who started several FLOSS projects rather than one who does detail bugfixing work voluntarily?

@hansup @bamfic @daniels @freedcreative

@z428 I think it's a major part of it. Business cynically reshaped "open source" into a means to exploit free labour, well-intended people pour their labour into that sinkhole trap and before they know it they're burned out and want nothing more to do with "open source" dev.

Example: a friend of mine had a project under GPL, needed a job badly, and was coerced into switching to MIT during a hiring process so the business could better capitalise on it.
@jamesmullarkey @hansup @bamfic @daniels

@freedcreative @z428 @jamesmullarkey @hansup @bamfic @daniels Business cynically reshaped "free software" into "open source" as a means to exploit free labour.
Fixed that for you.

You are correct.

I was squeezing into the character limit and am pretty sure people in this conversation know the difference, so just went with the quotes instead of spelling it out.

@daniels @z428 @jamesmullarkey @bamfic @hansup

@z428 @hansup @jamesmullarkey @daniels @freedcreative A Universal Basic Income might help. Then developers won't have to work for money. We could instead work on things that help the community, and maybe aren't even fun.

@bamfic Definitely so. But for the beginning, maybe it would help, too, to come up with an idea how to in a fair way fund / reward FLOSS developers without having them resort to having a "proprietary dayjob" or industry sponsors... The community could help here too I guess. 🙂

@daniels @hansup @freedcreative @jamesmullarkey

@z428 IMO we need to come up with a total replacement for "normal" work and business. The same way there's a libre principle based alternative to most mainstream software, there should be libre principle based alternatives for how we circulate our money amongst ourselves too. We're constantly leaking money to feed players who don't operate on a principled basis, we need to find ways to circulate it amongst ourselves instead. @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@z428 I think to be truly independent the libre community needs to be self funded. As long as you rely on external sources that don't share the same principles, they have control and can & will work against those principles. @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@freedcreative cooperative ownership is the way to go:
1. stable funding
2. democratic control
3. political status

@z428 @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@Antanicus And more in keeping with human nature. We're not solitary animals like leopards or tigers. We're social animals because cooperating has played a huge part in our adaptation and survival.

A competition based society goes against our fundamental make up, and I think it's one of the reasons it works so poorly.

@z428 @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@freedcreative and still, the BDFL figure is revered in the FLOSS community as a kind of "solitary genius" who is above all social and political norms. Then again, right libertarian ideas are rampant in the FLOSS community, so I'm not entirely surprised...

@z428 @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@Antanicus Yeah there are some strange contradictions about. I was deeply disappointed on more than one occasion to learn that "The most important thing is freedom" meant, "Oh freedom for me, not for you or them".

@z428 @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

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@freedcreative True. And I think this is the same for virtually any "creative business". Another example: While I do so for self-defense reasons, I really at times (having travelling-journalist friends) feel guilty for using an ad-blocker while visiting some web sites, knowing that (lacking any more ethical funding models and real acceptance for "paywalls") ads provided by services such as Google AdWords are in many cases the only way ...

@bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@z428 @freedcreative @bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey There are some studies in this regard, although focusing on crowd matching compared to existing models: snowdrift.coop .

This looks really fascinating. I was a little surprised to see they don't have any projects listed with them though. I suppose that's coming soon?

@freedcreative ... for people or smaller publications to receive a somewhat reliable income (actually this makes the idea of browsers such as Chrome funded by Google or Mozilla funded by Google and others blocking ads on small third-party sites, thus effectively cutting all of their revenues, even a bit worse). 😟

@bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@z428 Yeah, not for one second do I blame the people just trying to survive within this set of rules, I blame the people with all the choice in the world who use that freedom to actively make other people's lives worse.

When the game is so badly rigged, all I want to do is figure out a way to start our own game and hopefully one everyone else can join too.

@bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@freedcreative Definitely so. That's why I don't get tired outlining that finding viable alternatives for this crowd is crucial to change anything. But that seems a road even more steep than "just" arguing for privacy and that stuf... 🙂

@bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@z428 That's why I think we have to focus on two main things: 1. Getting information out. 2. Helping people who've decided they want to make changes.

It's taken me way too long to realise you can't convince any person to change their mind, and if it seems like you have what really happened was you were coincidentally nearby when they changed it themselves.

Focusing on helping people who are already on the move is the most fruitful endeavour I feel.

@bamfic @daniels @hansup @jamesmullarkey

@bamfic @daniels @freedcreative That's weird. I observe the opposite on my work machine. Chromium grinding to a halt with 100% CPU usage until I completely kill it, while Firefox does not show any such issues.

@ljwrites First point is just annoying. You now have to go to "close multiple tabs" before you can choose "close tabs to the right", something I use all the time.

Second thing is more shifty. Adding custom search providers through the green + button in the search field isn't working how it used to and the ability to add one via a URL + query string is gone. I couldn't add an open source search I wanted to try.

But the big button to restore defaults and put $3M Google back is sure still there.

@freedcreative those Google dollars are finally coming home to roost, eh? Once I start feeling the effects I guess I'll make Qute my main browser or something.

@ljwrites Yeah I think it's time for me to start reducing my fussiness level over browser choice and do without some of the things I like to have. Not fan of the slow creeping direction.

@freedcreative too bad the developers of one of the forks turned out to be gross centrists who ragequit Patreon because it was donating to BLM (like there are so many actually valid reasons to hate Patreon but that was the one that did it?). Pale Moon indeed *snerk*

@ljwrites I saw that. Bye bye Pale Moon and Basilisk. Another one bites the dust.

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Merveilles is a community project aimed at the establishment of new ways of speaking, seeing and organizing information — A culture that seeks augmentation through the arts of engineering and design. A warm welcome to any like-minded people who feel these ideals resonate with them.