Ugh, RIP Reddit.

I thought it was fake or something but it's not, they're effectively converting upvotes into crypto coins:

And in this dystopian little promo they pitch how monetising your every tiniest action is actually freedom:

ยท ยท Tusky ยท 31 ยท 100 ยท 68

@freedcreative This uh... seems about on par with reddit culture tbh


@jbauer Yep, gross.

But still sad because there are some great little pockets on there that I read frequently.

They'll migrate somewhere else I expect. Hopefully this brings some better spaces than Reddit to life.

@freedcreative @jbauer

that's... interesting. not *what* they will do precisely but the context and why they might have felt the need to do it

the headline that silicon valley is "all-in" on crypto has been around but I interpreted it as lots of cookie-cutter crypto-startup stuff. presumably that's not quite getting traction

you can almost feel the algorithm going down the major "assets" to see where it could stick:

* alpha? - Nope
* meta? - nope
* tweta? - hmm, nope
* reddit -> bingo ๐Ÿ™‚

@freedcreative @jbauer I see it as further evidence that SV is desperate to get into the financial "game" and is looking for a way in that will not face pushback

reddit does not have the name recognition of facebook among aging senators so it might be unlikely to be dismissed as quickly as libre/diem

nb: but it did receive some notoriety with speculative redditor mobs going against hedge funds etc

@openrisk I think you nailed it. And perhaps also they're getting the foot in the door by disguising it under Reddit's existing functionality instead of coming straight out and saying it's a competing currency.

@norm That was my first thought. Surely it will turn it into a wasteland of spam.

Their little promo simultaneously said nobody can control the"community tokens" because they're on the blockchain, and they have systems and technology to prevent abuse. You can't have both. par for the course unfortunately. Cryptocurrency promoters really love to promise the impossible.

@freedcreative It's a really bad idea.

The idea of turning everything into microtransactions has existed since before the web. With cryptocurrency, maybe that's possible now. But commoditizing all interactions, however insignificant, will produce the opposite of freedom. A lot of people will end up cryptographically locked out from participation.

Gamification will make people more addicted, therefore less free, yes. Its a great way to get closer to #matrixWorld.

Thanks Etherium-based grift.

@freedcreative The idea of having a blockchain controlling upvotes or reputation doesn't bother me. Steem/Hive does that and I think it is a neat concept as it ties into microtipping and income. It's not really any different than having karma before other than having a mechanism for trading it. โฎจ

@freedcreative But Reddit is using Ethereum which is my main problem. Pretty much any POW blockchain should be burned to the ground because it's razing the world. (The Steem/Hive chain is POS and at least less destructive in that regard, still has faults).

I'm sure there is a lot of way of abusing the system too since you can basically just hand over points from one account to the other. Not sure how that will play out.

@freedcreative Of course, the big question is how to cash out. :D If you can't, it's basically company scrip and just a waste of energy and effort.

@dmoonfire I'm not an expert on Steem / Hive. However even without consideration of the general issues with crypto, to me the two are very different.

In one case you have something built on the premise of it being a monetized content sharing platform from the outset.

The other takes half a million people who formed communities on a platform they understood to be ad funded, then forces direct monetization of their most granular social interactions whether they like it or not.

@freedcreative Yeah, the rule changing everything out from underneath years of history is not good; it breaks a social contract.

It's one of those "breaking changes" where they should just create a new network instead of trying to retrofit an existing one.

I don't mind it on Hive, but Reddit would annoy me. Plus, if every interaction has a $ associated (even indirectly), it's going to change how people interact.

@freedcreative Content plus pay for upvotes leads to only one thing, click bait.

@dmoonfire Exactly. I know Black Mirror references are getting old, but it really does remind me of that episode where every single social interaction gets a star rating, leading to a nightmarish existence of social punishment and paranoia.

This is sort of even worse because you're not only being rated but paid, or not. When we desperately need to encourage community over personal enrichment, they decide to make community *driven* by personal enrichment.

I hate it.

@freedcreative And there is a reason I don't do much with Hive now. ๐Ÿ˜ And why I want to escape this capitalist hell that makes things like these seem like a good idea.

@freedcreative I especially enjoy that in the community points site they critique "the amusement parks" with "walls and billboards"... while being one of the main offenders of that!

I hope that the few pockets I visit on there will migrate elsewhere, but if not, I have already started "migrating" to smaller forums on few topics I follow, guess I should look for alternatives for the others.

@FredBednarski Right?! And that not-very-subtle dog whistle about "censorship". We all know who complains the most loudly about "censorship", and it's not investigative journalists and whistle blowers.

@FredBednarski Oh and the also-not-subtle refences to "settlers" and "the frontier".

Yeah, we see you and exactly what you mean to do.

@freedcreative > give each of us ownership of what we're doing

> Force our users onto web3

The cognitive dissonance is staggering but unsurprising from a guy whose username is a joke on strange programmer meme

@dualhammers It's always the way with these types of things isn't it. All the con job takes is to describe it as the opposite of what it really is. Done.

@freedcreative You're assuming he is grifting and isn't, himself, deluded

@dualhammers Yeah, I do assume that for most of people higher in the grift than "mark" status. Even if they're lying to themselves most of them know what they're doing on some level.

@dualhammers @freedcreative There is never a clear line between the two. The deluded are usually, at some level, in on the grift, and the grifters become true believers as a mechanism to resolve cognitive dissonance.


To be specific about how bad this is, yes, itโ€™s gonna use proof of work. Itโ€™s a layer 2 on the original proof-of-work version of Etherium. In other words, Reddit hates planet Earth.

@Sandra Right, so ask the things we need to do to not die, let's do the opposite.

@freedcreative I feel like I'm losing my mind. They say "Everything will be permissionless, open-source and decentralised". How can everything be decentralized if Reddit itself is not decentralized? How can everything be open source if Reddit isn't open source? In what way do you have ownership if you can't easily move your subreddit and "decentralized" karma off of Reddit, because it's not federated?

I hate everything about this. The time to leave Reddit is approaching.

@freedcreative they're been doing this for a while, haven't they? and it's made the quality of discussions in major crypto subs absolutely go to shit circlejerking, not like they weren't all that great before but there was *some* interesting discussion in like 2017/2018

@lunch I gather that, though I'd not known about it myself prior. I imagine a core part of their strategy is to roll out very slowly so they don't spook everyone away.

@freedcreative I am on Reddit, even moderate three small subs, but had not seen this although it started summer 2020.

Reports of Reddit's death seem to have been greatly exaggerated.

@TranslateScience When I say RIP Reddit, I mean RIP the best aspects of Reddit. And I would expect the effects to take years to fully land.

@freedcreative Maybe. Or maybe it just dies. It seems overly complicated. Who knows at the end of the month who made how much contributions to one of the many subs they follow?

We'll see.

@TranslateScience I sure hope so. I'd love to see all the schemes collapse into a failed heap.

@freedcreative Good news, big tech fuckups should be seen as opportunities to be seized. I say this as quite a heavy user of reddit.

@freedcreative I deleted my Reddit account Friday because of that. And they are calling this more something good for decentralization, lol

@carlschwan I saw, and appreciated, your posts on Twitter calling it out as snake oil too. ๐Ÿ”ฅ

@freedcreative so when you get downvotes, do you have to... pay them?

@freedcreative I love the fact that he talks about decentralized and ownership etc... etc... etc... Those 2 things are incompatible with a "classical" social media platform.

@SrEstegosaurio The old "describe it as the opposite of what it is" technique. I just wish we at least collectively made them work harder for it than that.

@freedcreative I laughed; โ€œwe know that the ad supported web is going away, and we have _no idea_ how to create a viable business model so weโ€™re gonna hook into this grift and hope we can figure something out.โ€

@freedcreative I'm catching up on some fedi posts that I bookmarked, and this hurt my head.

Reddit + crypto = decentralized and freedom and joy?

Can I have some of that glue they're sniffing? Sounds awesome, bro!
@freedcreative They seem to be among the types that I'd strongly recommend going out in to the wilderness for a couple of week vacation, with no internet, maybe no electricity. It seems they're very disconnected from reality.

@kinetix 100%. Imagine the impact if everyone could, and did, do that once a year.

@freedcreative Heh! It's along the same lines as teaching kids where food comes from.

@freedcreative yeah I dont mind the tipping aspect of this, but when you introduce cryptocurrency, you also introduce damaging the climate through mining, plus you bring wall st style speculation into the mix so that sounds unstable.

Odysee is doing this, but they even recognized the pitfalls and have allowed tipping via fiat currency.

@geotechland Exactly. And also, even if crypto itself had no downsides, monetizing every little social action is the polar opposite of what we need.

We need communities built with the express purpose of maximising the common-good, not for the purpose of maximizing individual enrichment. We have way too much of the latter already. And we especially don't need operations working to convert the former into the latter.

@freedcreative Yeah good point. Right now people contribute for the common good on the site. If that gets monetized, it will lead to users finding ways to extract as much value with posts and comments etc.

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