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I've been learning SwiftUI for the last few months and I feel… guilty about it. This framework is very limited to Apple's ecosystem, and I don't like the direction the company is going. I still find a joy when using some of their products, and especially when using software made by other small developers which runs only on Apple (like Things3)

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I started this journey because I wanted to learn declarative UI programming and build a few native apps for myself. But the further I go, the more concerned I get. Maybe I should stop spenging my time on it?

@gleb each hour spent developing for Apple devices is an hour supporting the battle against the right to repair.

I'm sure you could find similar UI paradigms elsewhere?

@neauoire Flutter is similar, but I am not a fan of Google either. And I doubt their phones are easier to repair.

It would be great if there was an accessible UI framework for building native applications for pocket and desktop computers.

@neauoire I remember reading about it on Wikipedia a while ago.
I will read more, maybe it can solve my problems and keep my mind in peace 😅.
Thank you very much 🙏

@gleb good luck! Rekka and I went down that road a couple of months ago looking for "what comes after Electron", and we found nothing. But maybe the landscape has changed, in any case, I hope you find something that works for you :)

@neauoire thank you! It has to change at some point, there is a limit for how long bloatware can keep bloating. Or at least I hope there is one. Have you studied Haxe during your “what comes after Electron” research?

@gleb yup :) It wasn't a good candidate for us, but it seemed well rounded and a mature graphical devkit for multiplatform applications development. The community is very active.

@neauoire this is nice to hear, I will definitely give it a try on holidays :)

@gleb @neauoire android isnt only for google devices - i use android and flutter apps on a repairable device ;)
@gleb @neauoire plus, the pixels got what, a 6 on repairability?

@eris @eris @neauoire maybe I was wrong about pixels, that statement was just an assumption. In any case, one vendor is better in privacy, another in repairability. I will probably keep my 4 years old iPhone as long as I can. By the time I can't fix it, better Linux-based smartphones may already be available.

@gleb @neauoire Jetpack Compose/Native? Modern functional declarative pattern, can target multiple platforms. Desktop Compose was developed by Jetbrains taking what Google had done on Android. Plus you get to code in Kotlin which is just a beautiful language.

@oppen @neauoire never heard about Jetpack. Do I need to have Java installed to run apps made with Desktop Compose? They say “Compose for Desktop targets the JVM” on their website 🤔

@gleb oh yeah, I'm conflating with kotlinlang.org/docs/native-ove I'd hope Compose Desktop would be able to target non-JVM at some point but obv not yet

@oppen it’s probably still a better option than Electron 😉

@gleb I did a little experiment with Kotlin Native and yeah, it might be new and rough but I'd rather use that than Electron.

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