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So, there's a constellation of concepts around web stuff that we all seem to care about: low- or no-JS, minimalism, brutalism, RSS, organic (as opposed to algorithmic) discovery, decentralization, offline-first, ownership and control of data, anti-telemetry-ism, etc. What are some terms or movements or design principles that encapsulate these ideas?

@neauoire Yeah, that was the phrase that kept coming to mind, though I wasn't sure how much it encompassed.

@neauoire @jrc03c "small web" is taken for something JS-heavy. Though small tech (coined by same person) is very much what I have in mind when advocating for this!

@jrc03c Priotize server-side over client-side and only do client-side when necessary.

@jrc03c “functional beauty”? Thinking in terms of Christoper Alexander

@jrc03c Some words I think of are "humane" and "self-determination" (both at a community and individual level). As far as some design principles, Amber Case promoted some principles referred to as "calm tech". The principles apply more broadly than the web and do not encompass everything you brought up, but are perhaps worth considering:

calmtech.com/index.html

@jrc03c There's also some interesting conversations and thinking going on over here:

humanetech.com/technologists

But the people involved may also be a little too close to the industry to truly have the impact I think they want to have.

@cstanhope I like "calm tech"! I hadn't heard that phrase before!

@jrc03c @cstanhope I also like Calm Computing. it gets at consent and choice, and centers the human experience.

@jrc03c@merveilles.town I've heard this referred to (somewhat self-deprecatingly) as "tech-veganism"

@jrc03c I see those as points of collaboration for independent web.

Elements of the internet which allow DIY spaces and connects them outside of corporate empires. Small tech combines ecology with accessibility and affordability, thus empowering individuals to own and control their virtual land. That is independence.

Basically a vast political movement with strong presence, impact and yet ridiculously tiny representation.

@jrc03c @neauoire there was a decent thread around this a while ago, and while there wasn't a consenus there were a few interesting suggestions and a really lovely debate on the merits of the proposals. The ones I particularly like were variants on "smol computing", and "respectful computing"

I've adopted the latter (NB: I might have been the one to propose it? I can't remember for sure, but if so that would certainly be a bias), because I think it escapsulates the ideas of respect for users (data, time, resources), our communities (sustainability etc.), and so on.

@calcifer @jrc03c Sorry, I forgot a word in there.

"Did you mean the ComputingWithinLimits paper that disambiguated the different words for permacomputing?"

@neauoire @jrc03c ah! Yes, partly. That paper referenced the Fedi conversation in question, but also had a lot of other work and sources.

@neauoire @calcifer @jrc03c There were two threads discussing terminology, one started by calcifer and a follow-up by me. Both very rich in useful concepts and discussion :) They are the source of my LIMITS paper, which celebrates a few of these terms (and lists all of them for reference).

Some links:
The initial thread by calcifer:
hackers.town/@calcifer/1054097

The follow-up one by me:
post.lurk.org/@l03s/1057133321

The paper:
limits.pubpub.org/pub/jkrofglk

I'm not arguing for one term to take the lead, but wish for all these terms to be meaningful by being practised, differently in diverse contexts, inform new practices, cross pollinate, to circulate widely :)

@l03s @neauoire @calcifer @jrc03c

I use the term "frugal computing", but I am more concerned with the emissions related to computing than anything else.

@wim_v12e @l03s @calcifer @jrc03c

I like how we have all these terms to choose from now.

I generally use permacomputing as an umbrella for all these, but my focus is toward repairability and against against obsolescence.

@neauoire @l03s @calcifer @jrc03c
I like that term too, and "toward repairability and against obsolescence" is exactly what I advocate.

@wim_v12e @neauoire @calcifer @jrc03c frugal computing was missing from both threads, but I will definitely include it in future writings! I very much enjoyed reading your article on it.

For those who haven't encountered it yet:
wimvanderbauwhede.github.io/ar

@l03s @neauoire @calcifer @jrc03c Sorry to butt in on a bit of a tangent, but perhaps it's a good opportunity to start referring to device lifespans in terms of decades. "How many decades are you planning to support your new mobile phone with updates? Zero? You're not going to support it at all?"

@jrc03c@merveilles.town I just saw this called the "indie web" and I think that fits pretty well.

@dawn Ah, yes, that was another phrase I had heard before but couldn't remember. Thanks!

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