"Hey! Just wanted to tell you - you've inspired me to buy a new Thinkpad. Thanks!"

No, NO! That's not the point, that's really not the point at all. The important part of the whole thing was "second hand"

@neauoire I loved my X220 so much, old thinkpads are fantastic laptops. New thinkpads not so much.

@neauoire bought my old thinkpad used, now gonna give it to my fiancee for her to use later

@kvothe there's so many computers rotting in people's basements that just need to find a foster home.

@neauoire ngl, sometimes people I know get visibly excited about whatever new whiz-bang stuff they’ve just bought or are about to buy. I want to share their joy, but also, I know that joy is fleeting.

It’s a real pickle! Only thing to do is do you, I suppose!

@kvothe @neauoire the joy of rediscovering old computers in our basements

@neauoire everyone knows it's the old thinkpads that we should get excited for

@neauoire at the very least seeing this post and the replies made me go turn on an old pda i have laying around. i wonder how good linux support is on that...

@neauoire step one of green tech - don't replace something that still works. Can't believe how so many people seem to skip that step.

@cancel @neauoire ah yeah that's more about the individual day to day decisions :) So much green marketing just encourage people to replace old with "green" new.

@cancel @electret @neauoire my energy company lets me pay 15$/m more to offset my energy with 100% renewables (23% is burned from landfill methane so its not co2 free but better than releasing it directly)

@cancel @electret @neauoire But better to decommission it and replace with nothing than with solar power even unless we actually need the electricity (we do... but reducing demand is greener than replacing production).

@neltnerb @electret @neauoire telling everyone to be more austere and to regress has a long history of not working. better to just grab the free sun energy.

@neltnerb @electret @neauoire Just my opinion, though, based on reading history :P And it doesn't apply to everyone. (See many of us, for example.) I think it is doomed as a general global/nation policy.

@cancel @electret @neauoire Yes, it does, but I'm saying it's better to shut down a coal plant and also an office park being air conditioned while empty for no reason. I advocate building solar power until the grid has more electricity than we want to use, not austerity 😄

@neltnerb @cancel @electret @neauoire Using energy efficient tech and buying second-hand devices is still something I think is worth doing, even if it didn't have environmental impact. Throwing a spanner in the works of the profit model of large tech companies is ALWAYS worth it imo, even on a tiny scale

@nihilazo @cancel @electret @neauoire yeah, I've found this works for clothes and furniture and other things that could be hand made by one person, but I'm not sure how to do that for things like a television. I know some people working on green supply chains for electronic products but I don't know how to avoid bad companies when they're all bad and are collectively the only choice 😟

@neltnerb @nihilazo @cancel @electret If I had to guess, I'd say that the footprint of using an old second-hand CRT for 5 years, is probably better than having a new LDC made. I could be wrong.

@neltnerb @nihilazo @cancel @electret I say 5 years because that's about the lifespan of the LCDs made today~

@neauoire @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret CRT draws ton of power. even a small one will draw 100 watts without batting an eye. similar LCD would draw like 10-30 watts.

@cancel @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret So 3x efficiency? getting that new LCD produced and shipped is probably worse then

@neauoire @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret well, it's kind of a moot point, because it's hard to find working CRTs in good-ish condition now :) nobody makes them anymore. so you'd be comparing buying secondhand LCD vs new LCD.

@cancel @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret were we live it's actually full of them at the second hand store, I look at them everytime we stop by. They would be of no use for us on the boat.. but they're there

@neauoire @cancel @neltnerb @electret the thing with used CRTs is that they're incredibly cheap - but I still think that the power consumption is probalby too insane to be using one for most things today over an LCD, even getting an older LCD (although some things, like fighting/rhythm games, will always be better on CRTs)

@neauoire @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret wow interesting. they are not easy to find here at all. when you do, there is usually something wrong with them.

@cancel where are you? I have never been in a place that has thrift stores that are not over flowing with crts for like 5$

@liaizon you *can* find them here, but they're often messed up in some way (burn-in, loud whining noises, busted connectors, can't keep signal timing for some reason...)

@cancel @neauoire @nihilazo @electret But upgrade to a LCD someone was otherwise going to throw away instead...

@cancel @neauoire @nihilazo @electret Your process for concluding that is extremely important though. More companies need to do "cradle to grave" lifecycle analyses and make that information more obvious to people buying stuff or else the "free market" can't do jack shit to help.

Energy star does these analyses for some products, my mum did a bunch about getting people to replace old refrigerators for them because for refrigerators it really was only like 10 years (fifteen years ago).

@cancel @neauoire @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret Depends on size and age. My 30" Dell monitors (LCD) draws 120W each. They're about 12 years old now, I think? I can't recall anymore.

@vertigo @neauoire @neltnerb @nihilazo @electret yeah a 30" CRT would draw 150-200 watts. Your Dell LCDs are probably CFL backlit instead of LED, and use less efficient controller chips. LG 32MN50W for examples, is a modern 32" LCD monitor and draws 27 watts.

@neauoire @neltnerb @nihilazo @cancel @electret There is also the health issue with CRT monitors. There used to be many technologies trying to mage looking in them less unhealthy. It's not a problem anymore with LCDs.

@neltnerb @cancel @electret @neauoire re: good companies, I feel like there are probably some tech companies that are better than others, but I don't think it's possible for a tech company to be good in 2020, even a tiny one, and compete in the current market which is fundementally built on exploitation for the sake of lowering prices.

@electret @neauoire step 2: if you don't need it for daily functioning right now, wait three months and see if you're still excited enough to spend money on it. Usually you were just under the influence of hype, slow yourself down so your self-control can actually function.

@ataraxia937 me too! And also how I avoided buying a librem 5! I will keep using the phone I have until it breaks. Then I will get the best Linux phone that is available at the time.

I've managed with this Sony for four years, if I get a few more out of it, with any luck they'll have phones running Linux that have the functionality I need, have been refined that much more, and aren't the size of Montana. ^_^

@electret @neauoire when it comes to computers, bad software makes that unfeasible for most consumers

@thornAvery @electret @neauoire @xj9 our economies got built around consumerism, and the only people capable of stopping this endless circle are the providers manufacturing fragile things and exploiting psychology to sell more stuff, so wishing is all we can do

@electret @neauoire Yes, the biggest thing you can do for the environment is not to buy new hardware! That's the one thing everyone seems to agree on!

Computers are extremely intricate devices that are expensive to produce.

@neauoire i silently suffer a lot whenever someone propose to buy a lot of new electronic shit just to do an artistic/interactive installation, this is becoming a problem

@npisanti @neauoire this is made even worse with many installations being displayed in one place/time only

@electret that wouldn't be a problem if the same gear would have been reused for different installations


@neauoire manual transmission nerds all bought second-hand, and look where that got us.

@alrs @neauoire By this analogy, the manual transmissions are gone already

@slowfallinward @neauoire Find a van with a manual transmission for sale in the United States, I dare you. You're going to find '60s Econolines and '80s Vanagons.

@alrs @slowfallinward @neauoire 80s vanagons are great, but they sound like someone farting into a tin can
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Merveilles is a community project aimed at the establishment of new ways of speaking, seeing and organizing information — A culture that seeks augmentation through the arts of engineering and design. A warm welcome to any like-minded people who feel these ideals resonate with them.