You don't own the content of your digital garden if you need Chrome to access it, simple as that.
@gavcloud @neauoire @paul at least tiddlywiki is just one big file though you can just download it and open it in a text editor. not as simple if you use an external db. I think ownership is always a more complicated matter though. do we own anything on our computers if the means to make silicon processors are only in the hands of multinational corporations?
I was really surprised and amazed when I tried the experimental p2p browser Beaker. You can use it to view *and create* websites! And it natively supports markdown!
In this case, it fit their vision for the browser. But it's true that all browser should support it natively!
Go as fancy as you like in the bells and whistles version, and with one click apply a super light, can’t-fail, ultra minimal layout instead. Something for everyone.
Even with those that do have reader mode I think a lot of people don’t notice it.
If it were something commonly built into both the UI and UX of sites directly it could be very helpful to readers. And it wouldn’t require cooperation from browser vendors to enable.
@inhji @neauoire @gavcloud I get a "cars are very fast horses" vibe when I think of my wiki being printed out on paper. Hypertext is a wonderful medium, I don't think you'd be able to faithfully preserve it in that format. Maybe some of it? Hmmm...
Roads are about the width of two horses butts. So it's not like we can really shake off the past entirely.
@paul @inhji @neauoire @gavcloud the idiom "cars are very fast horses" is especially funny here where I am staying right now because this is Amish country where most of the "traffic" on the road here are horse and buggies. So that phrase isn't as much an analogy as it is a statement of the present. Having a system that exports wikilinks into some citation format and an index in the back would be a nice standard. I could imagine that already exists somewhere
@liaizon @gavcloud @neauoire @paul
On the "flat HTML vs DB" bit, I actually think a TiddlyWiki style thing using a sqlite DB would be more future-proof. Imagine wanting to port your notes out of tiddlywiki as a lower-skill person (in a scenario where complex browsers have become unreliable).
You can use copypasta sql statements from fora and blogs and friends to learn to dump your DB into flat text - CSV or something, at least.
But copying the data out of a large, script heavy HTML file could be nightmarish unless you learn basic web scraping. And you'll probably have to unescape HTML entities and handle intra-document links that only retain meaning if you thought to capture them properly. These skills are broader and messier to learn, IMO, than basic SQLite.
@neauoire for human readability yes, but they hold the potential of being electromechanically processed using human-scale and relatively easy to find materials
@neauoire if you know a way to 'see as css2' i would love to know what my stuff looks like, i use a lot of variables and flexbox
It’s a shame that the philosophy of progressive enhancement is just about forgotten now.
Which browser were you using? I’m about to construct a new site theme and it would be nice to test against it.
I’m not really a fan of CSS resets these days. All the browser overrides usually then just get overridden again with custom styles anyway.
I basically get rid of the default body margin, (which IMO shouldn’t be a default anymore), and that’s it.
@neauoire @rosano I'm having a real hard time with this take. This line seems arbitrary. Unless you're talking about making your entire website hinge on some very specific chrome only feature. But even in that case, how is that different than requiring a browser at all?
Gardens require tools to maintain (I mean you can do some of it it by hand, but you'll tire yourself out). If you want to share with the most people, build small walls so anyone can get in. But that's not everyone's goal.
@ciel @neauoire @rosano I think for me the problem is the lack of backwards compatibility and peoples’ total disregard for it. Sure add tons of flashy animations and webgl etc., but if you want to actually share responsibly, you must consider progressive enhancement. For people who can’t get their hands on a newer computer (or simply don’t want to spend the money or change their software), people who require assistive technology to access digital content, etc.
@amatecha @neauoire @rosano Right, and I definitely believe you should try to make things as accessible as possible to your ability. But limiting what I make because it doesn't work in netsurf is arbitrary. If something is broke and I'll try to address it, but I'm more concerned if it works for my mom.
What about encryption? You encrypt your digital garden so that it's only accessible to you. Do you need to be able to do the decryption algorithm by hand so that you "truly have access" to it?
@ciel @neauoire It's worth reading Ivan Illich's "Tools for conviviality" in this context. He basically makes the case that all tools aren't equally desirable, and that tool selection doesn't happen without social consequences.
The argument is analogous to epidemiology. In both cases you're dealing with an exponential phenomenon, either a reproducing pathogen or a network effect of adoption. In the face of an exponential, small individual decisions can have huge collective consequences.
@neauoire is there a mega-chart of HTML and CSS compatibility for all the web browsers?
I really can't find one.
quirksmode.org maybe the closest but it looks out-of-date.
a chart comparing all the modern web browsers is not particularly meaningful.
looking for Lynx, Links, w3m, Dillo, Netsurf, what else? Wii browser was a form of Opera, I think. maybe some obscure pre-iPhone smartphone/PA browsers. and of course JAWS, and other screen-readers.
anybrowser.org was not helpful
Revel in the marvels of the universe. We are a collective of forward-thinking individuals who strive to better ourselves and our surroundings through constant creation. We express ourselves through music, art, games, and writing. We also put great value in play. A warm welcome to any like-minded people who feel these ideals resonate with them.