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"If you own a house, you can’t do anything unless you get permits, licenses, and pay fees to do what you want on your land. "Do what you want" on your land is more of a “mother may I?” type of situation… only a lot of the time ‘mother’ says no."

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@rek you probably /can/ do whatever you want, just don't expect to be able to get insurance on it, or sell it to anyone else.

@epoch I'm not 100% on this, but say you're modifying your house without a permit, I think the municipality can issue a stop-work order. Then someone will be sent to see if what you've made is up to 'building' and 'zoning' codes. You'll have to pay for the surveyor, of course.
I had this conversation with my dad last year, after he had to apply for permits to redo the entire left side of the house. Didn't seem to have much to do with insurance, just city laws. Mind you, i don't own a house :>.

@epoch And this is specific to Quebec, Canada, this might not be true for elsewhere.

@rek @epoch it’s the same in France but only matters for outside modifications. But honestly it’s a two edged sword. My friends bought a nice house with garden years ago. Last year someone started a 4 floors building right next to their garden, basically ending their privacy. Fortunately the guy was using a loophole in the law and they managed to reduce it to 3 floors and have an existing wall extended. When they are no rules the lost unreasonable people will abuse it.

@thomasorus @rek @epoch Come to america, where along with the lack of a social safety net or health care you can, sometimes, in some places, build without any zoning laws.

@thomasorus @rek @epoch Note: the places without zoning laws are also often the places that attract people without any sense of social laws and they like guns a lot

@dualhammers @thomasorus @epoch I get why these laws were put in place, but while providing some protection, they stifle you. I also get why people would want to live in places without zoning laws, even if I might not share all of their values.

@rek @dualhammers @epoch Once my renovations are done my goal is to buy a piece of land and plant trees there for years and eventually when I’ll want a house, build it in my own house so I won’t bother anyone.

@thomasorus @dualhammers @epoch One issue is that sometimes in some places (true in some Canadian provinces/cities), when you buy land you'll be required to build a house on it within a year, some places also ask it to be a certain value. That dispelled the dream I had of just having a land, consisting primarily of a garden and greenery to camp on, at least, in the beginning. Some places are only interested in selling to people who will build super mansions... :/

@rek @dualhammers @epoch Fortunately we’re not forced to do the same here (I think).

@thomasorus @dualhammers @epoch Yea, rules are different everywhere. Hopefully that won't be true for where you live.

@rek @thomasorus @epoch Yep, agreed. Most regulations like this, when they finally get put in place, have morphed into a thing that serves multiple interests beyond just protecting people - often it enriches someone, or protects the status quo, or fulfills some idea of creating an "ideal" neighborhood.

I share your dream of a simple plot of land, but most of the places without those laws in the U.S. are already near deserts and will be worse in 10 years

@thomasorus @rek @epoch same thing in Belgium, and even if it can be annoying I think it make sense, as what you build on your land can impact the people around you.

@thomasorus @epoch Yea that's shitty. City-living is really flawed in that way. Too much proximity-friction.

@mrus Indeed. Owning a house or land? Naw, you're leasing it, really. You can't pay, and away it goes~

@rek if anyone wants to talk american rural building code, e-mail me. over a decades worth of stories.

in general: be optimistic. and realistic.

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