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Feeling very stimulated and wondering if last thread (merveilles.town/@s_ol/10401627) warrants some community organizing.

I am considering to start a newsletter on the topic, should there be enough interest to warrant that. If you would like to receive a sporadic newsletter on the topic, please send an email to:

s+lowtech at s-ol dot nu

Disclaimer: I will retain your email for this purpose until I receive a removal request. I won't share your data with anyone (other than my email provider Migadu).

This also means that I am now looking for content for said newsletter. Please email me projects and communities within and adjacent to this problem space to the same address!

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I'm also wondering if there should be a more centralized community framework around this topic, a la futureofcoding.org (sans the podcast). That warrants two more questions:

- Is there already a community I am unaware of that should be joined instead? I want to avoid creating "yet another..."
FoC has a lot of overlap, but doesn't necessarily share the ambition of thinning the stack.

- Are you interested in this? It would probably be a Zulip server.

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@s_ol How would you define "this topic" you are talking about?

@focus404
that will be exercise #0 ;)

Let's see...
"R&D of thinner, learnable, open and efficient technological stacks"?

@neauoire
Hm, re-reading the instance description I see what you mean, but being on here I always felt like while it's part of this the instance has a much wider range of topics. I think about it more as the "artistic use of technology" space.

Maybe I should also constrain the scope more, I don't really mean "creating a community" (which is what we have here and I really enjoy!) but a platform for more project-specific and goal-oriented discussion.

@neauoire
On mastodon there will always he a mix of topics because users have to make it their home, and will bring their content here with them.

@s_ol do you see something more like a list of links? or a wiki, or a forum?

@neauoire
@s_ol I was about to suggest the same.. a forum would be better suited to this..

PS. I maintain community.humanetech.com (though independent from humanetech.com) .. we are Humane Tech Community at humanetech.community

@neauoire @s_ol A code forge hosting or mirroring such projects could be very useful!

I'd mirror my projects and accept contributions there!

@s_ol I suspect none of the existing possible media would be well-suited to your idea. Wiki, forum, etc., all have real problems. You want some sort of emerging knowledge base, that gets distilled from discussions.

The original C2 wiki aimed at that, but eventually failed on several fronts. I've been playing with something different, here's an example:

solipsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/DiscDAG

Currently that's read-only.

CC: @neauoire

@s_ol That link shows a display that's currently set to show only the neighbourhoods of selected nodes, and I've only selected one node for you. You can explore the network by selecting and unselecting nodes, accomplished by clicking on them, or the appropriate link at the top.

CC: @neauoire

@s_ol It's bug-ridden, user-hostile pre-alpha with a vile UX, but it's an idea for something that seems to be new, and possibly useful.

CC: @neauoire

@neauoire @s_ol Must say that this is the first time that I have this kind of conversations online (and I'm really excited about it). So I'll say that Devine is right. This instance is a right place for starting.

I don't know too much about Mastodon, but is there a way to have groups in here? Maybe a different timeline? (I'll search now haha)

I'm 100% interested in participating! 👍

@kitsunelli @s_ol we use hashtags for "room" usually, maybe merveilles should have its own wiki or something.

@neauoire That would be cool, I think! It would be nice to know what @s_ol thinks, too.

@kitsunelli
I totally agree. of the options @neauoire mentioned above, I also think a wiki might be the most suitable.

Judging just by how scattered my own thoughts and opinions on this topic are, and the variety of responses here, some structured thinking is in order ;)

I really like reading the C2C wiki archive, I would be very happy to be a part of something like that :)

@s_ol I was a heavy contributor to the C2 wiki, and lament its demise. I would love to be part of something like it again, provided lessons can be learned from how it failed.

Ward Cunningham has also now created a Federated version, but I've never worked out how to use it.

CC: @kitsunelli @neauoire

@s_ol It might just be me, but I also think it has significant connections with the idea of the Zettelkasten (as I envisage it!) as well as is the diagramming tools and discussion tool I've been dabbling with.

CC: @kitsunelli @neauoire

@ColinTheMathmo @kitsunelli @neauoire
I don't really know much about the history of it, is there somewhere I could find out more (specifically about lessons to be learned)?

@s_ol I'll see if I can find something, rather than writing it all out from memory. It survived a remarkably long time with effectively no controls, but fell when a couple of people who had infinte amounts of time insisted on changing things against the majority wishes.

I'll be back ...

CC: @kitsunelli @neauoire

@s_ol Here's a page that highlights where it went wrong:

wiki.c2.com/?GrammarVandal

The lesson to learn is that there will always be people who have infinite amounts of time, and will set things on fire just to watch the world burn. You need to have a gated community, although you can (and probably must!) start with almost no controls to get the audience/community.

CC: @kitsunelli @neauoire

@ColinTheMathmo Hello! 👋

Even though I didn't know much about it, I was reading the C2 wiki last night and I was worried about the same thing (someone changing/deleting stuff for no reason at all).

Maybe a combination of tools would be nice: some place where we could talk and debate, and a static site where people could look at the premise, goals, etc.

For example: If we want to gather information in a public space, I've found Are.na very useful!

Any thoughts? cc.@s_ol @neauoire

@kitsunelli Hello! 👋

Indeed ... I've had this sort of system before with a small number of colleagues. We discussed things and had an ongoing conversation, but as we found agreement we went back and tidied up the discussion, converting into "Document Mode".

wiki.c2.com/?DocumentMode

I have designs for how that might work, but not the skills to implement them.

Did you see my "DiscDAG" idea?

CC: @s_ol @neauoire

@kitsunelli I've had a brief look at Are.na and I think I don't grok what it's doing, or how it's doing it. I can't see any real description of what it *is* (IYSWIM).

Do you have a pointer to a clean, high-level description?

CC: @s_ol @neauoire

@ColinTheMathmo Yes! I see it as Pinterest but with a twist. You can gather information as blocks (files/links) in channels (folders).

The nice twist is that every block shows the channels it has been saved in. So there's this indirect connection? with another profiles/folders.

You can also set up a collaborative channel where everyone can post something.

Examples
→ Profile: are.na/new-computer-working-gr
→ Channel: are.na/new-computer-working-gr
→ Block: are.na/block/3035084

cc. @s_ol @neauoire

@s_ol I've sworn off email, but will be looking forward to seeing further discussion around this topic here on mastodon.

@s_ol I just read the entire thread and felt completely understood. We need to work towards a new way for computing itself. And I'm saying this as a designer.

Not only to analyze technical aspects, but also social, economical and political ones; to build a new ground with a clear perspective about how will this work and who are the people that will be actually benefited with this.

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Merveilles

Merveilles is a community project aimed at the establishment of new ways of speaking, seeing and organizing information — A culture that seeks augmentation through the arts of engineering and design. A warm welcome to any like-minded people who feel these ideals resonate with them.