@cancel oh no
have the gamers discovered suckless software
where do we hide
@syntacticsugarglider I'd rather be harassed by 10-14 year old American kids than cat-v people
i use suckless more generally
i'm not suggesting that your work is considered harmful .-.
I think the reason it's being passed around is it lets them send slightly louder audio than the regular Discord client, because it doesn't do any filtering, so they can win in voice chat loudness matches. Which is kind of hilarious.
@cancel are you serious?
for a moment there you had given me hope in humanity
the idea that young americans were rebelling against the Electron order of things and using native tools was exciting to me
but i'm too optimistic I guess
@syntacticsugarglider Ripcord isn't really native except maybe on like LXQt
@cancel all i mean by native is that it doesn't require a browser engine to run
@syntacticsugarglider Ah. The bar for native has been lowered significantly over time, I guess :)
@cancel i might be misusing the term but I see it applied in that way pretty frequently
example: the late chrome native client API
@syntacticsugarglider It used to mean "uses the toolkit of the platform". So on Macintosh it would use Toolbox, Carbon, or Cocoa. On Windows it would use Win32. UNIX systems had various things like Motif and CDE as standards, then later on with Linux there was GTK for Gnome. And then Qt was used for KDE, and then GTK and Qt were used for other things as well...
@syntacticsugarglider Specifically a C++ program that used Qt on Mac or Windows was NOT native. That was exactly what the term was invented to describe -- using some wrapper or some foreign toolkit to draw widget controls, handle text input, etc.
@cancel yep, I'm aware
but at this point I see the term used to refer to anything compiled to "native code", that being the actual hardware ISA of a system as opposed to an IR, virtualized bytecode, or something interpreted
@cancel yeah, it's not especially relevant in and of itself
but in most cases things that aren't "native" in that way are either running in a browser or on the JVM
and people have a laundry list of issues with either one of those things
due to the like sheer weight of the runtime required to execute anything that depends on such an environment
@syntacticsugarglider Shipping a standalone GTK app for Windows, written in C, means including 40+ .dll files weighing in at over 35mb. Before you even count the actual program.
@syntacticsugarglider And GTK is super slow and takes forever to start... has laggy input due to many layers of indirections and plugin systems and whatever... but it's written in C! :P
@cancel I guess I should hate GTK more lol
but i've never had a GTK program feel unresponsive
I think what you're calling "many layers of indirections" is probably still far less overhead than something like CEF
@syntacticsugarglider "ah, nice, a Macintosh emulator, and it uses GTK! can't wait to try it out"
this reminds me of my experience trying to ship something that linked against gstreamer
i needed like two plugins for webrtc support bc its somehow the least awful webrtc stack to link against
but some weird GPL clause forces you to ship a bunch of unused code
not really sure why but i was just profoundly infuriated by that experience
felt very contrary to what I consider the ethos of OSS
@syntacticsugarglider Lemme know what your opinion of OSS is in 10 years from now. It may be a bit different :P
Ripcord isn't exactly svelte... 28mb after being extracted, but it's also 64-bit binaries, which are larger than the 32-bit binaries I just showed.
@cancel honestly I think I'm in a place right now where any software that consistently functions as intended and weighs less than 50mb on disk is the best I can hope for
spending a lot of time on my own framework stuff atm which is great and all
then sometimes I take a break and step back and realize that there's a disconnect between what I'm willing to accept across the horrible software experiences I interact with and all my fancy statically monomorphized zero-allocation tooling that I build
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