showing and explaining yip.pe to a colleague
> so what did you use to build it?
> right but like, how, what stack did you use?
> did you use like, react or node or
> how did you make it work tho
@zens the difficulty is finding anyone who'll show you how to do this if you're just starting out. Almost all tutorials start with "first use npm to install this package"
@zens I recently learned how to use native es6 modules in my vanilla JS and it was a fun day. Then I ruined it by adding vue.js, but I didn't touch npm directly, so I didn't catch anything.
[edit: delete and redraft for keyboard smash copy paste fail]
@zens Now defunct (business was sold) domain registration system I built had all sorts of fancy front end validation and DOM manipulation, based on a simple library. Which I wrote for the task. And have subsequently reused. Can't even remember the name of that early and popular JS framework which has all rhe $ in it, but I was always like, what is the fucking POINT? JS is so easy to use. Why complicate shit?
@zens I feel like this is symptomatic of a different but very much related issue, and that's project management being strong-armed by higher-ups to constantly hammer on more features.
Everything has to be a "real-time interactive data driven super fun time experience SPA".
@zens point is: the road to npm hell is paved with the "good intentions" of having an app do quite literally everything at once
@somarasu @o @zens @technomancy bit off topic at this point but I've had success pushing the 'increased attack surface'/security angle of using vast JS stacks / npm ecosystem. I got some numbers calculated on expected costs of dealing with the aftermath of an exploit. So then the discussions became: "yes we can cut a month from development time by using this stack but here's how much it could hurt us later". Hardly a panacea, but enough leverage to push back against the worst excesses
@zens Honestly, I bet some people will yell at you. Bite them.
We had a couple classmates in college that tried to convince me that using fancy frameworks was /better/ somehow. I was like ????
The number of people who have suggested I rewrite some simple, tabular, frameworkless JS UI for doing CRUD in Vue is amazing.
> why didn’t you use X
my friend. my brother. i have been doing this a long time and i am still being forced to maintain shit written in X - 1 and X - 2
And then when you show people you can, instead of pulling down a blob of JSON and turning it into a table or some other UI, your server side template can do the same, so you can insert it into the DOM and if you have written your event handlers with the proper scoping, don't even have to update them.
@grumpysmiffy i dunno, people come from other languages, miss their pet features and blame the language instead of their unreasonable expectations
@grumpysmiffy like if people’s dominant experience with cars was with bad drivers they might conclude that cars are just bad.
@zens but then why does the js on that page look like it came out of a bundler/minifier and contain zepto.js?
@guenther because i got lazy and used a couple of functions out of zepto, so sue me.
i’ll clean it up at some point and kill the zepto dependency
Revel in the marvels of the universe. We are a collective of forward-thinking individuals who strive to better ourselves and our surroundings through constant creation. We express ourselves through music, art, games, and writing. We also put great value in play. A warm welcome to any like-minded people who feel these ideals resonate with them.